"One Friday I arrived at the club with a friend from theatre class, Brian Tutunick. I was decked out in a navy blue trench coat with "Jesus Saves" painted ont he back, striped stockings and combat boots. At the time I thought I looked cool, but in retrospect, I looked like an asshole. ("Jesus Saves"?) As we walked in, we noticed a blond guy (Pogo) leaning against a pillar with a Flock of Seagulls haircut hanging in his face. He was smoking a cigarette and laughing. I thought he was laughing at me, but when I passed by e didn't even turn his head. He was just staring into space, cackling like a madman..."

"I spotted a girl with black hair and huge breasts (which when there were on a Goth girl like her , we called Dracula biscuits). Shouting over the music, I explained to her that I had a hotel room and tried to convince her to come up with me. But for the 99th time that summer, I was denied because she had come to the club with a date, which turned out to he laughing boy (Pogo). She brought me to his pillar, and I asked him what he was laughing about. His response came in the form of a tutorial on the proper ways to commit suicide, which included essential details like the exact angle to hold the shotgun at and what type of ammunition to use. The whole time he had a strange way of laughing at everything he said. He'd just start cackling, and within that cackle he'd repeat what he had just said-a word like twelve-gauge or cerebral cortex-so that both you and he knew what was so funny.

His name was Stephen, but, he explained in the ensuing seminar, if anyone called him Steve, it pissed him off. If anyone spelled his name with a "v" instead of a "ph", it pissed him off too..."

"I didn't get laid that night, which pissed me off, though it was nothing new. But I did exchange numbers with Stephen. He called me the next week and said he wanted to make me a cassette of Songs About Fucking(Big Black) and bring me something else he thought I'd be extremely interested in. He wouldn't say what it was. He just wanted to come over and give it to me.

Instead of Big Black, he brought me a tape of a band called Rapeman, and he spent several hours extemporizing on the lineage between the two bands, rocking back and forth autistically all the while. I later learned that he had a problem with hyperactivity as a child, which his parents had treated with Ritalin. Now that he wasn't on medication, he often turned into a babbling blur that was dizzying to watch. His mystery surprise was a rusty can of spiced sardines that had expired in June 1986. He never offered an explanation for it, and I never figured it out. Maybe he thought I was going to pull an Andy Warhol and make silk screens out of it.

We began spending a lot of time together, hanging out at my poetry readings and going to concerts by shitty South Florida bands that I thought were halfway decent at the time. After a show one night, we came back to my house and pawed through poems I wanted to turn into songs and lyrical scraps I had written. I was hoping he played an instrument since he seemed to know everything there was to know about all things electrical, mechanical, and pharmaceutical. So I asked. The answer came in the form of a long-winded monologue about how his brother was a jazz musician and played a variety of reed, keyboard and percussion instruments.

Eventually he confessed, "I can play drums, heh, heh, heh, drums, heh, heh-sort of-heh, heh,sort of,heh."

But my vision didn't include drums. I wanted to start a rock band that used a drum machine, which seemed somewhat novel at the time since only industrial, dance and hip-hop bands used drum machines. "Just buy a keyboard and we'll start a band,"I told him..."

(Killing Nancy)

"I asked Pogo everything there was to know about murder and the diposal of bodies. I wasn't going to accept any other alternative. She had to die..."

"Pogo and I went about this task very meticulously. We plotted the perfect murder, with not only no evidence that we had been involved but no evidence that there had even been a murder. We followed her, cased out her house and figured out her routine before coming up with the solution:arson.

That Thursday night, Pogo and I put on all black (which wasn't that much different from how we usually dressed);filled a shoulder bag with kerosene, matches and rags; and drank some courage at Squeeze (nightclub where Pogo and Manson met). Before leaving the club, I phoned Nancy to make sure she was home. As soon as she answered, I hung up. We were on..."

"As Pogo and I neared her house, a black vagrant chased after us. "Hey, what is this, Halloween?" he yelled as he approached, the fetid stench of his breath signaling his arrival. He had a large gold-colored ring across his knuckles that spelled out his name, Hollywood, and he kept telling us about the drugs he had for sale... Hollywood kept following us, all the way to Nancy's door. Pogo and I looked at eachother. We didn't anticipate there being a witness in this deserted neighborhood. the look we gave eachother was a question mark: Do we kill him,too? Or do we abandon the plan for tonight?

We decided to walk around the block and pretend Nancy's building wasn't our destination. But he kept trailing us and trying to get us to buy crack...As we neared Nancy's house a second time, we heard sirens...we fled in the opposite direction,leaving Hollywood, Nancy and New River alive and unscathed."

(The Deaf Girl)

"I asked Twiggy and Pogo to scotch tape their penises together to see if she (the deaf girl) could put two penises in her mouth at the same time. But it turned out they couldn't stand next to eachother to create that, so they had to face their dicks front to front, and it became like a penis tug-of-war. She sort of licked it like some sort of dick harmonica...That's when all the trouble started to break out. Because that was when we decided that Pogo should get to live out his fantasy and have sex with the deaf girl. So he put on a condom...

She gnawed through the tape like a rat looking for a piece of cheese. And then Pogo put this condom on, which made his dick look like a chitlin. And he started to fuck her from behind, which was appropriate beause she had a dog leash on at the time and he was holding the leash. So , he's shouting all these obscenities at her...

While all this was happening, Pogo said something, and we might not want to mention it because it's pretty offensive...He shouted, "I'm going to come in your useless ear canal," and it seemed to echo through the room as maybe one of the darkest things we had ever heard. "

(Manson's Pogo Philosophy)

"Pogo , a genius too mad to use his intelligence in any constructive way. He always reminded me of the professor on Gilligan's Island: he was smart enough to build a TV out of coconuts, but he could never fix the boat to take everyone home. If dared to, Pogo would gladly do anything, even drink his own urine; however, he would fall deathly ill if anyone did anything as trifling as putting mayonnaise on his food."

Instruments Played: Hammond Organ, Theremin, Saxophone, Callopenis, Brass, Distorted Muzette, and Loops on Portrait Of An American Family, Super Heterodyning Synthetic Bassoon on Lunchbox, Sound Deformation, and Poop Games on Smells Like Children, All Keyboards, Loops and other original pieces of 16-bit audio information on Antichrist Superstar. Keyboards and synthesizer on Mechanical Animals. Keyboards, synthesizer,synth strings & ambience on Holy Wood.

Named After: Madonna the singer/actress and serial killer, John Wayne Gacy (executed murderer of 33 boys, also known as kids' party entertainer Pogo the Clown)

Real Name: Stephen Gregory Bier Jr.

Birthday: March 6,1964

Background: Had never picked up a keyboard until he joined Marilyn Manson, took him less time to master the keyboard then the time spent saving money to buy one.

Equipment: Kurzweil , Yamaha , Peavey , Mackie , Premier, Zildjian

Likes: Numerology, Hebrew Kabbalism, Asian women.

Dislikes: People that make bootlegs, the internet.

Favorites:

Lunchboxes--Land of the Lost and G.I. Joe

Bands--Black Sabbath, Ramones, Butthole Surfers, Big Black, Buffalo Tom & Fear.

Movies--Brazil, Forbin Project, Mel Brook's "The Producers".

Book--Nietzches' "Beyond Good & Evil

Heroes--Jeff Dahmer, Arthur Brown, Schoepenhover.

Circus: What was the hardest part about making this album?

Pogo: Living in New Orleans. I hate that place. It's got beautiful arcitecture and it's nice in the wintertime, but in the summer it's oppressively hot. I guess it might be good to torment you to the point where a lot of hate comes out of you and gets focused onto the record. I guess in that respect it's good. There is some amazing arcitecture and good culture, but it just seems like a town of the least common denominator where everyone is just filthy and drunk and smelly. People think that that is some how more real, but I dont think living in a sewer is some how more real.

Circus: I guess for this album you wouldn't want to be in an ideal place. It might take away your edge.

Pogo: We don't make any place we are at an ideal place. We bring our own misconduct and hate and bad times with us wherever we go. We don't need the city to add to it. We're generally miserable and shitty no matter where we are. Then when you have the extra bonus track of this place...it might have been good in that respect, but I'll have to think about it. A couple of years from now, I'll be able to reevaluate that question, but right now I'm just glad to get out of there.

Circus: This album leaves a lot of room for the next album's direction.

Pogo: It does leave a lot of leeway. This album is almost a record and a half. We had enough material for two records.

Circus: Was there any thought given to making this a double album?

Pogo: The thought might have crossed our minds, but we wanted it to be cohesive. There is a high thematic content. A lot of songs were particularly chosen to be in a particular order for the structure of the album. There is a lot of numerological significance to what songs we put in there, in what order and how they're set up. I've been studying up on Hebrew Kabbalistic and numerological texts. We've been coming up with some strange things with numbers. Spooky. Hebrew numbers are letter like the Roman numbers are letters. So therefore every word has a number that it is associated with as well as every sound does. There are a lot of very powerful things to words that people don't realize. In traditional magic, the most powerful thing is to be able to utter the name of God. You can undo creations. Remember God said "Let there be light". By his very word he created the universe. The word is all-powerful- 'I am the word, I'm the way.' Words are what it is all about Just the ability to pronounce and vibrate the name of God is supposed to be the most powerful magical thing you could ever do in traditional magic. We were working on seeing if there was a way to bring about the apocalypse. The apocalypse won't happen. The devil can't brake into this world from the nether world and destroy it. He has to be let in by humans. The gates unlock from the inside. He can only destroy the world if you let him in. He can't break in, he's not that powerful. One thing we were trying to do was to open those gates for an apocalypse now. The apocalypse may not be the traditional type of apocalypse where it is the end of the world. But the end of the world does come when you die. Your own experiences die. The world began and ends with you. The apocalypse we are trying to bring about may not be an apocalypse for the entire world. It might actually be your own personal apocalypse. A physcological apocalypse. When you destroy yourself completely by letting in the dark that is out there. Coming to embrace it and accept it, and realize that it needs to be there. For things to get better, it always must be destroyed for new ways to come about. We were working a lot with those concepts very deliberately. There is a lot of significance with the numbers and symbols you see with the record. It isn't some ridiculous Ozzy thing. We weren't trying to be like that. It was about the meaningfulness of words and what words are all about. And melodies, too. They're related to words. The traditional idea of words is the power in words is in the words. Vowels vibrate and resonate. That is where tone and melody is. What consonants do is control vowels. They close them off and chain vowels down. We were trying to combine many polar opposites and get past a lot of traditional ideas we had ourselves of what the universe is about and what ourselves are about, because we are the universe. It's weird, I'd like to be able to explain more of this, but it's kind of confusing in some ways. A lot of people find it a bit esoteric, so I don't want to get into it too much and get people completely confused. People, if they ever get a chance, might want to look into it. The word is the most powerful thing there is.

"Why would I want to look like I have some kind of office job, like most of those plaid-shirt college bands, when I'm in one of the only professions there is that allows me to look completely fucking insane?!"

(When asked about ever doing anything cruel to a Jehovah's Witness- Gaston Gazette)

"No, I just invite them to read my books when they come to the door. They don't want to read my book, so I don't read theirs. I even invite them into my house for a debate. See, they don't want to do that. I might scare them. See, I tell them to come back at midnight. So far, none of them have come back."

(When asked about liking vampires - Gaston Gazette)

" No. I hate vampires. You know, people who think they are a vampire. Here is my challenge, let me walk up to you and shoot you in the chest. No wait, shoot you in the head to stay away from the heart, with a lead bullet, not silver or anything, just regular lead. And if you continue to live, I will believe you are a vampire. People then say, "Well, I'm not that kind of vampire." What do you mean, can you die!? You can't turn into a bat, you can't control the weather, then what the fuck is the point of being a vampire if you have no special powers? You're just a regular person, FUCK OFF!! So I don't believe any of that shit, you know. If someone walks up to you and shoots you in the face and you live, Woo, I'll be excited. Wow, a vampire! Rock on! Otherwise, it's a load of shit because they have no special powers. Just because you have fangs and drink blood, so what? I can drink piss. Who cares?"

( When asked what is the best and worst thing about being in Marilyn Manson?- Kerrang!)

"The worst thing is having to explain whether you're monogamous or not. The best thing is getting free beer wherever you go. "

Kerrang!: Where and when did you first meet Marilyn Manson?

Pogo: "Oh God, 12 years ago at a bar. A mutual friend introduced us. We got along because we had obscure tastes in music. I had a tuxedo on at the time in this punk rock bar because it pissed people off."

Kerrang!: What were your first impressions of him?

Pogo: "He looked young."

Kerrang!: What's your non-musical role in the band?

Pogo: "I'm the person in the band who will do anybody else's dare, any ridiculous shit. In a game of Truth Or Dare, I'd rather lie my ass off so I could jump through a window."

Kerrang!: What's Manson like to work with?

Pogo: "Like everything, it's fun, it's annoying, it's exciting, it's tedious, it's violent and drug-induced. I wouldn't trade it for anything. FUCK no."

Kerrang!: What's the most hedonistic thing you've done since joining the band?

Pogo: "How do you make up a scale of hedonism? I don't know if I can even say some of them. The best stories are in Manson¹s book and if I reveal any others, they may have criminal repercussions."

Kerrangl: You're seen as the insane one in the band. Is that fair?

Pogo: "Cool. I'm always the first person to try something. At least once, then keep going until you get sick on it. When I grew up in the late '70s I used to regularly wake up in my own vomit."

Kerrang!: What's your favourite Manson album?

Pogo: "Some songs are more enjoyable live, some are more fun in the studio."

Kerrang!: What's your favourite song to play live?

Pogo: "The last song of the set, because that's when you get to smash everything."

Kerrang!: How did the aftermath of Columbine affect you?

Pogo: "I didn't really pay much attention to it to be honest. No one wins in that situation and we got blamed for shit we didn't do. The people who did it didn't want to give credit to anyone but themselves. They liked our music and there's nothing we can do about that."

Kerrang!: How enjoyable was it to record the new album? (Holy Wood)

Pogo: "It took a long time to do, but it was really cool. Most of the time, I went upstairs worked on a computer and synthesiser. I messed around with prime number loops where they only intersect every three days and I'd check up on what kind of music they'd be making. You never know what¹s going to happen."

Kerrang!: Do you fully understand the album's concept?

Pogo: "I don't know if anyone understands what Manson's trying to achieve. You think you get it, but later on, you get it even more. People can read the Bible and still find something new after reading it 1000 times."

Kerrang!: Do you mind that Marilyn Manson the man seems to have overshadowed Marilyn Manson the band?

Pogo: "Where do you draw the line? People always want to focus in on the singer anyway. You may as well accept it. Anyone who would get pissed off about that is an idiot."

Kerrang!: Why do think 'Mechanical Animals' didn't live up to commercial expectations?

Pogo: "I don't read the statistics of our sales. In the States, there's always a certain amount of fickleness. If you sell more than 10 records, you apparently can't be independent and free-thinking. The more records you sell, it's indicative of how much you suck. Either way, you suck."

Kerrang!: Who is your closest friend in the band?

Pogo: "We're all good friends, I've known Manson the longest, so I'm closest to him, but that¹s just because of time."

Kerrang!: What do your parents think of what you do?

Pogo: "They're all for it. My mom just stopped teaching first grade and my dad used to be a school teacher too. They like the fact that Manson puts the blame where it's supposed to be. They believe people should be responsible for their own actions."

Kerrang!: Do you believe in monogamy?

Pogo: "Define that word. I don't know if the concept really exists. Given the chance, anybody can be tempted, no matter what ideal they have of themselves."

Kerrang!: What's the best and worst thing about being in Marilyn Manson?

Pogo: "The worst thing is having to explain whether you're monogamous or not. The best thing is getting free beer wherever you go.

Kerrang!: What bands have you been listening to recently?

Pogo: "I've been listening to old stuff mostly: Steel Pole Bathtub, Butthole Surfers and Pink Floyd. I like to get high to Yes and get in touch with my inner Rick Wakeman."

Kerrang!: Do you still like the drugs?

Pogo: "Ha ha ha!"

Pogo had won the "Best Keyboards" award in the 1996 Circus Magazine Readers Poll. Here is an article dedicated to him:

Gacy stands virtually motionless behind his white promgramming keyboard during Marilyn Manson's stormy, stunt-filled concerts. Goatee-faced meditative Madonna(a.k.a. Pogo, a pseudonym for serial killer John Wayne Gacy, who makes up half of Madonna's fabricated name) doesn't need to move when their powder-faced bassist Twiggy Ramirez and long-haired, scarred-torsoed lead singer(whose scars are self-inflicted, of course) are only too content to hog the spotlight.

Gacy literally has his hands full creating the busy jukebox of samples and frightening pre-arranged sounds that contribute to the freakiness and circus-like atmosphere of their shows. Occasionally he straps on an electronic key-board around his back and walks to mid-center stage.

At the fourth stop on their 1996-97 Antichrist Superstar tour, he barely escaped in one piece. "We only broke two guitars, a lot of beer bottles, and a few mystery things. You'll have to excuse me. I keep spitting up blood. I accidentally ate ground glass tonight...."

Marilyn Manson may be the ringleader of this mad carnival of sound, but the keyboardist(and veteran numerologist) helps guide the Florida-based band spiritually. Madonna's overt influence has impacted largely on the band's direction on their best-selling sophomore Antichrist Superstar album.

As musical collaborator, Madonna has co-written five of the album's 16 tunes, including the haunting "Cryptorchid" and the scorching title tracks. His varied styles on Superstar- from the snaking, harsh lines in "The Reflecting God" to the distorted organ sounds in "Irresponsible Hate Anthem" -help make the album one of the more interesting packages of 1996.